Recently, Pope Leo talked about how those speaking on behalf of the Church need to be less obsessed with "pelvic theology," and talk more about the many, many other moral teachings of Catholicism.
I'm struck by the absence of any topics other than "pelvic theology" in this polling about American Catholics' obedience to the Church's moral teachings. I'd love to see, for instance, the percentage of Catholics who think you can be a good Catholic without following the Church's teaching on helping the poor or opposing unjust wars, for instance.
Now, I'm one of those unrepresentative yammery converts that you read so much about, so of course I'm going to assent to what the Magisterium says on the transubstantiation or birth control or what have you; that's what I signed up for. But a key reason why I converted is because of the Church's teachings on social justice, not because of the teachings on divorce--and I know I'm not alone here.
People always talk about "cultural Jews", but there are "cultural Catholics" in the same way. That doesn't exist in the same extent in the Protestant denominations. Even if young lay Catholics don't go to church, they would feel comfortable going on Christmas and Easter. Meanwhile, I do not know if young WASP adults could elucidate what an Episcopalian or a Presbyterian is.
The single question that stood out to me was helping the poor. Those who never set foot in a church were far more likely to regard this as obligatory as those who were there all the time.
There was an interesting insight in one of the Jewish journals this month by a a high profile Rabbi. He acknowledged that attrition in attendance and affiliation was often prompted by the perception of hypocrisy where behavior of congregational leaders falls below expected standard. The Rabbi notes that even when that occurs, the religion's Gold Standard remains constant, even when violated. Boundaries of who is in and who is shunned can be fluid.
About 15 years ago or so when I was living in Philadelphia, I happened to meet an Episcopal priest who served a parish on Rittenhouse Square. His title was "Missioner to the LGBT Community." Philly not only being overwhelmingly Catholic, but also quite progressive, I asked him how successful his missionary work was among those who had been raised Roman Catholic. He said it was nearly impossible. He said no matter how progressive those who have been raised to Catholic had become, no matter how much the Church teachings ostracized them, no matter how high church the Episcopal liturgy could be, He said that it was fully ingrained in so many of these people--who no longer attended--mass that The belief that the Catholic Church was the only true church proved too hard a nut to crack in their psyche.
I wonder if the people that were inclined to leave have mostly already left. The 2005 survey lines up with the Spotlight reporting (and subsequent reports) on the SA stories. You could read that chart as a bunch of the Nevers moving to middles at that point. Would be interesting if we had all the data to do a Sankey with the ratings.
"The belief that the Catholic Church was the only true church proved too hard a nut to crack in their psyche."
Interestingly, I think that this is also true for the LDS church. They too claim to be the one true church, and the restored one to boot. And when people leave the LDS church they frequently join the "nones" because if the "restored" church was found to be not true then none of the other churches can be true either.
Notably though ex-Catholics make up a surprisingly large percentage of the membership at non-denominational churches. So I guess many former Catholics were eventually able to get over the idea of the RC church's claims to sole authority.
If you don't think you need to go to church to be Catholic and you don't think you need to believe what the church teaches to be Catholic, why leave?
When people do leave to become a "none" it feels like a multi-decade if not multi-generational slide of indifference. I have seen this pattern personally: "My grandparents used to go every week but now only on Christmas and Easter. My parents never really went as adults but were married and baptized in a Catholic Church. I got to get married outside or in a barn and I never did get around to baptizing our kids..."
One of the most interesting things I've genuinely learned from your work is that a large number of Catholics are closet Protestants. (And in light of the latest illicit SSPX ordinations, not-so-closet Protestants.) I myself grew up a suburban Catholic and currently attend (weekly!) a big city Anglo-Catholic Episcopal church, so I'm doubly fascinated by the idea that I'm just formally doing what a lot of Catholics are already doing in their hearts.
First, thanks for this analysis. I was just talking with a Catholic friend yesterday about why she doesn't attend Mass.
Second, after our exchange about colors, I wanted to commend a couple things here. First, the colors in this post are pretty good. Second and more importantly, you labeled curves directly on the graph instead of using a legend, which is awesome. In the future if you need to use a legend because the graph is too cluttered, I suggest marker styles for graphs like your first couple. Instead of using circles for all the curves, mix it up with squares and triangles and stuff. Thanks!
Basically all the things in the survey that she disagrees with. She loves the community but not all the teachings about birth control, abortion, etc., etc.
I find Roman Catholicism as an institution fascinating at so many different levels and this analysis was so insightful. I think that we are seeing a denomination that is soon to be in free fall, because if "devoted" members of such a strongly objectively theological tradition can hold values that are directly contrary to church teaching -- as this article elaborates on -- then that can become a slippery slope.
As Ryan has reported in the past, the number of cradle Catholics that are leaving is astounding and the subsequent closing and merging of parishes (announced almost monthly now) shows that the pews are emptying. This alone demonstrates how many Catholics are responding to their personal relationship with the church -- gone.
Relatedly, the abject inability of the RC church to recruit and retain priests in sufficient numbers even to maintain current numbers sounds like an insurmountable problem. How does the shortage of priests impact the perception of the membership of the RC church, especially with the central practice of the Mass? If the RC church struggles to be viable, how can it be authoritative? Where is God in this mix?
I'll have something more on the potential downsizing of Catholicism in a post in about 10 days. It's a deep dive into the Detroit Archdiocese. The priest shortage they will be facing seems impossible to navigate.
Recently, Pope Leo talked about how those speaking on behalf of the Church need to be less obsessed with "pelvic theology," and talk more about the many, many other moral teachings of Catholicism.
I'm struck by the absence of any topics other than "pelvic theology" in this polling about American Catholics' obedience to the Church's moral teachings. I'd love to see, for instance, the percentage of Catholics who think you can be a good Catholic without following the Church's teaching on helping the poor or opposing unjust wars, for instance.
Now, I'm one of those unrepresentative yammery converts that you read so much about, so of course I'm going to assent to what the Magisterium says on the transubstantiation or birth control or what have you; that's what I signed up for. But a key reason why I converted is because of the Church's teachings on social justice, not because of the teachings on divorce--and I know I'm not alone here.
I mean, there is a question in the battery about whether someone could be a good Catholic and not help the poor - 63% of Catholics agreed.
Indeed--I don't know how I missed that interesting and deeply disappointing statistic in your graph above.
People always talk about "cultural Jews", but there are "cultural Catholics" in the same way. That doesn't exist in the same extent in the Protestant denominations. Even if young lay Catholics don't go to church, they would feel comfortable going on Christmas and Easter. Meanwhile, I do not know if young WASP adults could elucidate what an Episcopalian or a Presbyterian is.
The single question that stood out to me was helping the poor. Those who never set foot in a church were far more likely to regard this as obligatory as those who were there all the time.
There was an interesting insight in one of the Jewish journals this month by a a high profile Rabbi. He acknowledged that attrition in attendance and affiliation was often prompted by the perception of hypocrisy where behavior of congregational leaders falls below expected standard. The Rabbi notes that even when that occurs, the religion's Gold Standard remains constant, even when violated. Boundaries of who is in and who is shunned can be fluid.
About 15 years ago or so when I was living in Philadelphia, I happened to meet an Episcopal priest who served a parish on Rittenhouse Square. His title was "Missioner to the LGBT Community." Philly not only being overwhelmingly Catholic, but also quite progressive, I asked him how successful his missionary work was among those who had been raised Roman Catholic. He said it was nearly impossible. He said no matter how progressive those who have been raised to Catholic had become, no matter how much the Church teachings ostracized them, no matter how high church the Episcopal liturgy could be, He said that it was fully ingrained in so many of these people--who no longer attended--mass that The belief that the Catholic Church was the only true church proved too hard a nut to crack in their psyche.
That may be the most striking thing to me in the post, less than 20% of Catholics seem inclined to leave.
They aren't gonna go to Mass, but they can't abandon the Church. It's fascinating.
I wonder if the people that were inclined to leave have mostly already left. The 2005 survey lines up with the Spotlight reporting (and subsequent reports) on the SA stories. You could read that chart as a bunch of the Nevers moving to middles at that point. Would be interesting if we had all the data to do a Sankey with the ratings.
"The belief that the Catholic Church was the only true church proved too hard a nut to crack in their psyche."
Interestingly, I think that this is also true for the LDS church. They too claim to be the one true church, and the restored one to boot. And when people leave the LDS church they frequently join the "nones" because if the "restored" church was found to be not true then none of the other churches can be true either.
Notably though ex-Catholics make up a surprisingly large percentage of the membership at non-denominational churches. So I guess many former Catholics were eventually able to get over the idea of the RC church's claims to sole authority.
If you don't think you need to go to church to be Catholic and you don't think you need to believe what the church teaches to be Catholic, why leave?
When people do leave to become a "none" it feels like a multi-decade if not multi-generational slide of indifference. I have seen this pattern personally: "My grandparents used to go every week but now only on Christmas and Easter. My parents never really went as adults but were married and baptized in a Catholic Church. I got to get married outside or in a barn and I never did get around to baptizing our kids..."
One of the most interesting things I've genuinely learned from your work is that a large number of Catholics are closet Protestants. (And in light of the latest illicit SSPX ordinations, not-so-closet Protestants.) I myself grew up a suburban Catholic and currently attend (weekly!) a big city Anglo-Catholic Episcopal church, so I'm doubly fascinated by the idea that I'm just formally doing what a lot of Catholics are already doing in their hearts.
That "Never Leave" graphs is illustrative of the heavy weight of inertia.
Well done and well described, thank you. I wonder about likelihood of leaving the Catholic Church by weekly vs other frequency of attendance.
First, thanks for this analysis. I was just talking with a Catholic friend yesterday about why she doesn't attend Mass.
Second, after our exchange about colors, I wanted to commend a couple things here. First, the colors in this post are pretty good. Second and more importantly, you labeled curves directly on the graph instead of using a legend, which is awesome. In the future if you need to use a legend because the graph is too cluttered, I suggest marker styles for graphs like your first couple. Instead of using circles for all the curves, mix it up with squares and triangles and stuff. Thanks!
Jonathan, that was a tease! What were the reasons your Catholic friend gave for not attending Mass?
Basically all the things in the survey that she disagrees with. She loves the community but not all the teachings about birth control, abortion, etc., etc.
I find Roman Catholicism as an institution fascinating at so many different levels and this analysis was so insightful. I think that we are seeing a denomination that is soon to be in free fall, because if "devoted" members of such a strongly objectively theological tradition can hold values that are directly contrary to church teaching -- as this article elaborates on -- then that can become a slippery slope.
As Ryan has reported in the past, the number of cradle Catholics that are leaving is astounding and the subsequent closing and merging of parishes (announced almost monthly now) shows that the pews are emptying. This alone demonstrates how many Catholics are responding to their personal relationship with the church -- gone.
Relatedly, the abject inability of the RC church to recruit and retain priests in sufficient numbers even to maintain current numbers sounds like an insurmountable problem. How does the shortage of priests impact the perception of the membership of the RC church, especially with the central practice of the Mass? If the RC church struggles to be viable, how can it be authoritative? Where is God in this mix?
I'll have something more on the potential downsizing of Catholicism in a post in about 10 days. It's a deep dive into the Detroit Archdiocese. The priest shortage they will be facing seems impossible to navigate.