This is so interesting. I mean, despite the arguing over whether or not he’s secretly attending an evangelical church in Austin, technically Joe Rogan would be a never attending Catholic. That’s in many cases what these guys look like. People who know they were baptized into the church and then it’s an identity they carry unless specifically repudiating it.
I live in the rural south, the supposed Bible Belt, yet I’ve noticed how few of my students or their families (I’m a public school teacher) have ever been to church. Yet these are the same people who in 2020 and going forward would say “Jesus is my Savior and Trump is my President.” They’d had this strong attachment to identifying as a Christian even though they truly don’t know a thing about Christianity. They know they believe in Jesus but couldn’t tell you a thing about his teachings or even what classical evangelicals say about what it means to be saved.
I’m Jewish, so this isn’t me bemoaning the lack of real Christians in the world. It’s just such an interesting thing. I tend to hear more Christian nationalist rhetoric from these types more than church attendees. These are the same people who support having the Ten Commandments displayed and want school prayer over the loudspeaker. But again, most of these have never been to church. They’re what would normally be described as Nones as described in your book, except if you ask them, they’ll tell you they are Christian (they don’t know what Protestant or evangelical means enough to identify as those).
So, just to complicate this narrative a bit more. Tony Jones and I got a huge Templeton grant where we surveyed 12K nones. We created a new way to classify nones.
One of our categories? Nones in Name Only (NiNos).
On some metrics they look just like Christians. It's just feels like they don't like to be labelled.
I would love to see why most people stoped attending church in the US. I am a never attending Protestant. My reasons for not attending are complex. But two stand out. Social exclusion by my parents church is the first. Because I didn’t attend their church school as a child, I was told I couldn’t join the choir until I was confirmed. And after I was confirmed I was denied again. (I do have a good voice, so it wasn’t that☺️) This estrangement and college led me into a period of agnosticism. By my thirties I recovered my faith, and was ready to attend again. However, I now could’t find a good fit. I wasn’t a biblical literalist so most protestant denominations and evangelicals were out and the whole notion of a priest as intermediary between God and myself put me off Catholicism or the Eastern Orthodox churches. I have a feeling that many non attending Christians feel, at least in part, pushed out. Which is a sad commentary on the state of American Christianity.
Re: your search for a church — Have you checked out ELCA Lutheran churches? Might be a fit for what you’re looking for theologically. (With the caveat that—as with many denominations—every individual congregation can be a bit different, so even if the first one you see doesn’t seem quite right for you, there may be others that are.)
Really interesting data and analysis. I have not read this book, but I believe Tim Carney at AEI wrote on a similar theme in Alienated America. One of the effects of the heightened volatility in American politics is that it is prompting us all to look at data differently, to seek out new angles for understanding trends.
"Religious attendance probably obscures more than it reveals when it comes to voting behavior."
I would further contend that it obscures religiosity. With respect to Jeannine's experience non-attendance obscures the actual depth of belief. It's almost as if believers are waking up to the fact that they are the church, the bride of Christ, not the other way around. For presumably Biblical denominations to exclude someone from worship for not joining them in straining at gnats (Mt. 23:9, Is. 28:10, 29:13 ?) leads to swallowing the camel of dechurching.
The first steps were/are insistence on doctrinaire details and insistence on "membership", the latter biblically questionable at best in my opinion. The final step is the politicization of Christianity, a step too far that will be regretted too late.
I mean somewhat by definition, aren't atheists "never attenders" (since they have no church to attend).
Part of me wonders whether's a social function (meet-ups?) that would cover this aspect of their existence, but I'd be shocked if the dataset was that fine-grained to allow you to see it.
This is so interesting. I mean, despite the arguing over whether or not he’s secretly attending an evangelical church in Austin, technically Joe Rogan would be a never attending Catholic. That’s in many cases what these guys look like. People who know they were baptized into the church and then it’s an identity they carry unless specifically repudiating it.
I live in the rural south, the supposed Bible Belt, yet I’ve noticed how few of my students or their families (I’m a public school teacher) have ever been to church. Yet these are the same people who in 2020 and going forward would say “Jesus is my Savior and Trump is my President.” They’d had this strong attachment to identifying as a Christian even though they truly don’t know a thing about Christianity. They know they believe in Jesus but couldn’t tell you a thing about his teachings or even what classical evangelicals say about what it means to be saved.
I’m Jewish, so this isn’t me bemoaning the lack of real Christians in the world. It’s just such an interesting thing. I tend to hear more Christian nationalist rhetoric from these types more than church attendees. These are the same people who support having the Ten Commandments displayed and want school prayer over the loudspeaker. But again, most of these have never been to church. They’re what would normally be described as Nones as described in your book, except if you ask them, they’ll tell you they are Christian (they don’t know what Protestant or evangelical means enough to identify as those).
So, just to complicate this narrative a bit more. Tony Jones and I got a huge Templeton grant where we surveyed 12K nones. We created a new way to classify nones.
One of our categories? Nones in Name Only (NiNos).
On some metrics they look just like Christians. It's just feels like they don't like to be labelled.
Hey Ryan. Looking forward to reading your book which is turning up here today.
I would love to see why most people stoped attending church in the US. I am a never attending Protestant. My reasons for not attending are complex. But two stand out. Social exclusion by my parents church is the first. Because I didn’t attend their church school as a child, I was told I couldn’t join the choir until I was confirmed. And after I was confirmed I was denied again. (I do have a good voice, so it wasn’t that☺️) This estrangement and college led me into a period of agnosticism. By my thirties I recovered my faith, and was ready to attend again. However, I now could’t find a good fit. I wasn’t a biblical literalist so most protestant denominations and evangelicals were out and the whole notion of a priest as intermediary between God and myself put me off Catholicism or the Eastern Orthodox churches. I have a feeling that many non attending Christians feel, at least in part, pushed out. Which is a sad commentary on the state of American Christianity.
Wrote a whole book about it: https://www.amazon.com/Great-Dechurching-Leaving-Going-Bring/dp/0310147433
Thanks! I will be sure to get a copy!
Re: your search for a church — Have you checked out ELCA Lutheran churches? Might be a fit for what you’re looking for theologically. (With the caveat that—as with many denominations—every individual congregation can be a bit different, so even if the first one you see doesn’t seem quite right for you, there may be others that are.)
I don't have many options in my community for a mainline congregation.
To my knowledge, there are four in total.
Three of them are less than 30 members.
I attend a United Methodist Church with a pretty robust community.
Really interesting data and analysis. I have not read this book, but I believe Tim Carney at AEI wrote on a similar theme in Alienated America. One of the effects of the heightened volatility in American politics is that it is prompting us all to look at data differently, to seek out new angles for understanding trends.
"Religious attendance probably obscures more than it reveals when it comes to voting behavior."
I would further contend that it obscures religiosity. With respect to Jeannine's experience non-attendance obscures the actual depth of belief. It's almost as if believers are waking up to the fact that they are the church, the bride of Christ, not the other way around. For presumably Biblical denominations to exclude someone from worship for not joining them in straining at gnats (Mt. 23:9, Is. 28:10, 29:13 ?) leads to swallowing the camel of dechurching.
The first steps were/are insistence on doctrinaire details and insistence on "membership", the latter biblically questionable at best in my opinion. The final step is the politicization of Christianity, a step too far that will be regretted too late.
I mean somewhat by definition, aren't atheists "never attenders" (since they have no church to attend).
Part of me wonders whether's a social function (meet-ups?) that would cover this aspect of their existence, but I'd be shocked if the dataset was that fine-grained to allow you to see it.
They tried Sunday Assembly. It largely failed: https://www.sundayassembly.org/
Some of your bar graphs have totals exceeding 100%, could you explain this please? Thanks
They should not add up to 100%, Rich.
The first bar graph is Republican vote share in each of the last five presidential elections.
The second bar graph is the share of white never attenders broken down in born-again vs not born again.
So in 2024, 79% of white born-again Protestant never attenders voted for Trump. It was 30% of white non-born again Protestant never attenders.
Ok, thanks for clearing that up.