As Ryan adapts to his new campus with a very large Jewish presence, some of the ways we differ from the Protestant majority will likely come his way. One is the creation of our Rabbis, which is in transition. In my era, Class of ’73, men went to university then applied to a seminary, much as one would apply to medical or law school. There was a pipeline that fed this. Usually the applicants were part if their denominational youth group clique as teens, went to a Jewish sponsored summer camp, a university with a large active Hillel, then applied for their divinity school, mostly sponsored by their denomination. Much of that feeder system has broken down in the last decade or two, with the creation or expansion of a few new seminaries that attract career changers.
One of the astute observers in the Jewish blogosphere pursued this, starting with a landmark article in The Atlantic by Shira Telushkin about a year ago. Since Ryan thrives on data, this blogger took an analytical approach. https://furrydoc.blogspot.com/2024/05/rabbis-going-forward.html What he did, not having a survey, is he created his own. He read every graduation program from every major non-Orthodox seminary for 2024. They often contain bios of the year’s grads. In the absence of a bio provided by the school, he did a web search on each individual. Total of about eighty new rabbis, about half female.
He found a variant of what Ryan’s more formal statistics revealed. That pathway to seminary and Rabbi as career professional for a synagogue has changed. These graduates did other things before opting for rabbinical education. Their options for employment as rabbis have many options other than leading congregations. Relatively few go directly to a synagogue. The reasons for this are many, but the umbrella groups of denominations usually impose some type of restrictions on who they may hire.
The going rate salary for congregational rabbis is about double the salaries in Ryan’s survey, so once there, nearly all are full-time. And the ones I know tend to keep long hours and answer to 200+ bosses.
What Shira addressed that the blogger did not was what did the men, now also women, who would have gone to seminary from college opt to do instead? Many PhDs, a few lawyers, other things that the career changers who went to seminary late in life had been doing before opting for Rabbinical study.
One of the things I have wondered about is not addressed here and its this. Do members of clergy feel isolated in their interactions with others. Do people tell them jokes or talk about baseball.
There are some answers to this, maybe even with data, though without the elegance of what Ryan offers us. A fellow who calls himself Professor Archive runs a series of podcasts on the evolution of religion in America. Very thoughtful series. He did a podcast recently of clergy who give up that role. There are a lot of them. Sometimes churches close, like Ryan's did. More often they depart from the profession due to a combination of low pay, gig economy, and isolation.
Hey Ryan. Since you seem to have left Bluesky I'm just popping by to say how much I enjoyed reading The American Religious Landscape last weekend. I hoovered up the whole thing in a coule of days and found it both educational and enjoyable.
As an atheist with a strong interest in community cohesion it's very concerning to read about the continued rise of the Nones, not because of their departure from faith but because so many people no seem to be without a community replacement. We secularists really need to do better.
I'm surprised a bit that there's no comparable shift for the $50,000 to $99,000 bracket versus $100,000 and up, since my impression across the Midwest in the Disciples of Christ is that those are the clergy who've been hit hard with the withdrawal of insurance coverage. Below $50,000 package folk never had it, over $100,000 still do, but the in-between is where the church circumstances and cantankerous treasurers have steadily taken health insurance off the table. What it may mean is that more of that demographic cohort has already shifted to spousal provision of health care. Thanks for the very specific and very real analysis: there's a discussion to be had about how those larger churches (that think they're healthier than they are) dislike their minister having an outside job, and even when the official board gives permission for it, the congregation pushes back in many ways. It's a self-image thing churches struggle with.
Our minister works part time for both our church and our denomination. We also have an assistant “digital” pastor not on site but who preaches occasionally on Zoom. She also works as a chaplain in a hospital AND volunteers in hospice care.
I think it would make an interesting survey to find out how many pastors seek help when they are overworked. It could be problematic to go to a superior or even equal in some denominations.
Do pastors avoid seeking help and just “burn out?” The problem with any set of statistics is that they give rise to other questions.
I’d be curious about women clergy in these surveys. Ordained in the Christian Church Disciples of Christ- I soon discovered that the emotional labor we do as women and the role we play at home make our workload almost unbearable. In an early study I learned that a majority left ministry.
Thank you for sharing the information about the survey. On looking at its methodology, I wonder if the data for your analysis concerned “primary leaders,” “secondary leaders,” or both.
My data analysis included everyone in the sample - about 1600. A majority of them (56%) said that they were the primary leader. The other two most popular responses were "general congregational leader (not primary)" and "youth/young adults"
As Ryan adapts to his new campus with a very large Jewish presence, some of the ways we differ from the Protestant majority will likely come his way. One is the creation of our Rabbis, which is in transition. In my era, Class of ’73, men went to university then applied to a seminary, much as one would apply to medical or law school. There was a pipeline that fed this. Usually the applicants were part if their denominational youth group clique as teens, went to a Jewish sponsored summer camp, a university with a large active Hillel, then applied for their divinity school, mostly sponsored by their denomination. Much of that feeder system has broken down in the last decade or two, with the creation or expansion of a few new seminaries that attract career changers.
One of the astute observers in the Jewish blogosphere pursued this, starting with a landmark article in The Atlantic by Shira Telushkin about a year ago. Since Ryan thrives on data, this blogger took an analytical approach. https://furrydoc.blogspot.com/2024/05/rabbis-going-forward.html What he did, not having a survey, is he created his own. He read every graduation program from every major non-Orthodox seminary for 2024. They often contain bios of the year’s grads. In the absence of a bio provided by the school, he did a web search on each individual. Total of about eighty new rabbis, about half female.
He found a variant of what Ryan’s more formal statistics revealed. That pathway to seminary and Rabbi as career professional for a synagogue has changed. These graduates did other things before opting for rabbinical education. Their options for employment as rabbis have many options other than leading congregations. Relatively few go directly to a synagogue. The reasons for this are many, but the umbrella groups of denominations usually impose some type of restrictions on who they may hire.
The going rate salary for congregational rabbis is about double the salaries in Ryan’s survey, so once there, nearly all are full-time. And the ones I know tend to keep long hours and answer to 200+ bosses.
What Shira addressed that the blogger did not was what did the men, now also women, who would have gone to seminary from college opt to do instead? Many PhDs, a few lawyers, other things that the career changers who went to seminary late in life had been doing before opting for Rabbinical study.
Certainly a lot of work in this stage: "He read every graduation program from every major non-Orthodox seminary for 2024."
I can appreciate a novel research design like that!
One of the things I have wondered about is not addressed here and its this. Do members of clergy feel isolated in their interactions with others. Do people tell them jokes or talk about baseball.
The rural environment in Illinois that he's talking about... You better know your last five days of rain gauge measurements.
ZERO RAIN.
I can't even tell you that last time we've had measurable precipitation. It's been at least 2 weeks.
Sounds like you got yourself a prayer request tbqh
There are some answers to this, maybe even with data, though without the elegance of what Ryan offers us. A fellow who calls himself Professor Archive runs a series of podcasts on the evolution of religion in America. Very thoughtful series. He did a podcast recently of clergy who give up that role. There are a lot of them. Sometimes churches close, like Ryan's did. More often they depart from the profession due to a combination of low pay, gig economy, and isolation.
Hey Ryan. Since you seem to have left Bluesky I'm just popping by to say how much I enjoyed reading The American Religious Landscape last weekend. I hoovered up the whole thing in a coule of days and found it both educational and enjoyable.
As an atheist with a strong interest in community cohesion it's very concerning to read about the continued rise of the Nones, not because of their departure from faith but because so many people no seem to be without a community replacement. We secularists really need to do better.
Thanks David! Glad you enjoyed the book.
I'm surprised a bit that there's no comparable shift for the $50,000 to $99,000 bracket versus $100,000 and up, since my impression across the Midwest in the Disciples of Christ is that those are the clergy who've been hit hard with the withdrawal of insurance coverage. Below $50,000 package folk never had it, over $100,000 still do, but the in-between is where the church circumstances and cantankerous treasurers have steadily taken health insurance off the table. What it may mean is that more of that demographic cohort has already shifted to spousal provision of health care. Thanks for the very specific and very real analysis: there's a discussion to be had about how those larger churches (that think they're healthier than they are) dislike their minister having an outside job, and even when the official board gives permission for it, the congregation pushes back in many ways. It's a self-image thing churches struggle with.
Our minister works part time for both our church and our denomination. We also have an assistant “digital” pastor not on site but who preaches occasionally on Zoom. She also works as a chaplain in a hospital AND volunteers in hospice care.
I think it would make an interesting survey to find out how many pastors seek help when they are overworked. It could be problematic to go to a superior or even equal in some denominations.
Do pastors avoid seeking help and just “burn out?” The problem with any set of statistics is that they give rise to other questions.
I’d be curious about women clergy in these surveys. Ordained in the Christian Church Disciples of Christ- I soon discovered that the emotional labor we do as women and the role we play at home make our workload almost unbearable. In an early study I learned that a majority left ministry.
A whole post about gender differences in clergy here: https://www.graphsaboutreligion.com/p/how-do-female-pastors-differ-from
The Hours Worked by Duration chart is one that's got to be explained by denomination, right? That feels like the missing answer there.
Thank you for sharing the information about the survey. On looking at its methodology, I wonder if the data for your analysis concerned “primary leaders,” “secondary leaders,” or both.
My data analysis included everyone in the sample - about 1600. A majority of them (56%) said that they were the primary leader. The other two most popular responses were "general congregational leader (not primary)" and "youth/young adults"
Those three together were 80% of the sample.