Thanks! As a Canadian, I find it hard not to see these things as directly linked to the racial history of the US. I realize the term "racist" is so loaded that it's almost unusable in everyday discourse, but if 4 out of 5 Black people say that they perceive something as racist (as in the case of the Confederate flag), I would be pretty strongly inclined to steer clear of that thing!
I think this is a case where phrasing the questions impacts the data. I could envision people saying that a confederate flag is both a symbol of southern pride and or racism. As for myself I see it more of a symbol of treason.
I had the same thought about many people thinking of it as both. That said, the advantage of forcing the choice is that it shows you what people's inclination is if they have to pick. I imagine this is why polling often leaves out both/and options.
Maybe I'm overthinking (or underthinking) this posting, but when I see the Confederate flag -- on the back of a truck, on a T-shirt or cap, waving over a wheat field in Oklahoma (where I grew up) --I don't see it as being a Southern Pride or racist statement, I see it as a lifestyle statement made by a conservative-leaning person yearning for the good old days who is angry and frustrated with the economic and societal hand they have been dealt.
Yup, they could be racists (and misogynists, narcissists, sexist, chauvinist, egoist, Aryan purists, misanthropes, bigots, too) but if the economy was working for them and society was working for them they wouldn't be flying the Confederate flag.
Way too simplistic, but I hope you get what I'm getting at.
"I do need to point out one oddity in this data, though. The one that really jumped out to me was liberal Catholics. One-third of them said the Confederate Flag was Southern Pride. That was eleven points higher than any other liberal group in the data. But then only 76% of conservative Catholics took the same stance, which was near the bottom of support. I just don’t know what to make of that, really."
I wonder if we did this survey prior to 2000? I grew up watching the Dukes of Hazard which I never really considered to be racist, just southern and the stars and bars was proudly displayed on their car named the General Lee. I think wokeness and politics drives this discussion. I’m sure we don’t have data but I would guess that atheists if polled in the 1980s would most likely come out very similar to evangelical Christians at that time. Politics is poisoning the well.
The chart at the end shows that atheists/agnostics are the real outliers here. The fact that 31% (almost 1 in 3!) see Civil War re-enactments as racist is nonsensical. They are the most passionate and extreme religious group in America about their worldview.
The chart Ryan did up in response to my question shows that there's at least one other group that feels pretty strongly about this... https://i.imgur.com/gnAGN9w.png
Except the set up was, is it racism or Southern pride? That would have been a hard question for me. I could see the reenactors as just history buffs. But if the re-enactment is presented as support for the Confederacy, then I do wonder if it is racist.
I have never seen re-enactment supporting the Confederacy. I know they didn't lose every battle, but overall, they lose every time. I think some of the problem here is people don't know people. It has been very helpful to understand what is going on in Iran by talking to Iranians in my church or Venezuela by talking to Venezuelans in my church. Many churches allow people to get to know people they wouldn't normally cross paths with. In my case that is everything from Civil War re-enactors, to former drug dealers, to millionaire entrepreneurs. I wouldn't normally know any of those people. Larger churches especially are becoming more interracial as well.
I'll disagree somewhat. Atheist aren't spending Sundays in churches, some of which were founded purely on racism and support for slavery, and hearing pastors soft shoe around ongoing racist practices and lack of accountability of churches that don't really seem to care about systemic racism. Does that make them "extreme" or just clear headed.
I am against racism. But are Revolutionary War re-enactors in favor of a British King or Dictator ruling America? Of course not. It hurts real efforts against racism when you box at shadows.
There was no mention of atheist picketing reenactments, it was a survey question of how something is viewed.
You comment "They are the most passionate and extreme religious group in America about their worldview". As a Christian I can say that comment is ridiculous and wrong.
What did the numbers around different races show?
https://i.imgur.com/gnAGN9w.png
Thanks! As a Canadian, I find it hard not to see these things as directly linked to the racial history of the US. I realize the term "racist" is so loaded that it's almost unusable in everyday discourse, but if 4 out of 5 Black people say that they perceive something as racist (as in the case of the Confederate flag), I would be pretty strongly inclined to steer clear of that thing!
I think this is a case where phrasing the questions impacts the data. I could envision people saying that a confederate flag is both a symbol of southern pride and or racism. As for myself I see it more of a symbol of treason.
I had the same thought about many people thinking of it as both. That said, the advantage of forcing the choice is that it shows you what people's inclination is if they have to pick. I imagine this is why polling often leaves out both/and options.
Maybe I'm overthinking (or underthinking) this posting, but when I see the Confederate flag -- on the back of a truck, on a T-shirt or cap, waving over a wheat field in Oklahoma (where I grew up) --I don't see it as being a Southern Pride or racist statement, I see it as a lifestyle statement made by a conservative-leaning person yearning for the good old days who is angry and frustrated with the economic and societal hand they have been dealt.
Yup, they could be racists (and misogynists, narcissists, sexist, chauvinist, egoist, Aryan purists, misanthropes, bigots, too) but if the economy was working for them and society was working for them they wouldn't be flying the Confederate flag.
Way too simplistic, but I hope you get what I'm getting at.
Thanks for the like: when I post something like this (deeply personal) I always wonder if I should have.
Yes, this observation fascinates me:
"I do need to point out one oddity in this data, though. The one that really jumped out to me was liberal Catholics. One-third of them said the Confederate Flag was Southern Pride. That was eleven points higher than any other liberal group in the data. But then only 76% of conservative Catholics took the same stance, which was near the bottom of support. I just don’t know what to make of that, really."
I wonder if we did this survey prior to 2000? I grew up watching the Dukes of Hazard which I never really considered to be racist, just southern and the stars and bars was proudly displayed on their car named the General Lee. I think wokeness and politics drives this discussion. I’m sure we don’t have data but I would guess that atheists if polled in the 1980s would most likely come out very similar to evangelical Christians at that time. Politics is poisoning the well.
The chart at the end shows that atheists/agnostics are the real outliers here. The fact that 31% (almost 1 in 3!) see Civil War re-enactments as racist is nonsensical. They are the most passionate and extreme religious group in America about their worldview.
The chart Ryan did up in response to my question shows that there's at least one other group that feels pretty strongly about this... https://i.imgur.com/gnAGN9w.png
Except the set up was, is it racism or Southern pride? That would have been a hard question for me. I could see the reenactors as just history buffs. But if the re-enactment is presented as support for the Confederacy, then I do wonder if it is racist.
I have never seen re-enactment supporting the Confederacy. I know they didn't lose every battle, but overall, they lose every time. I think some of the problem here is people don't know people. It has been very helpful to understand what is going on in Iran by talking to Iranians in my church or Venezuela by talking to Venezuelans in my church. Many churches allow people to get to know people they wouldn't normally cross paths with. In my case that is everything from Civil War re-enactors, to former drug dealers, to millionaire entrepreneurs. I wouldn't normally know any of those people. Larger churches especially are becoming more interracial as well.
I'll disagree somewhat. Atheist aren't spending Sundays in churches, some of which were founded purely on racism and support for slavery, and hearing pastors soft shoe around ongoing racist practices and lack of accountability of churches that don't really seem to care about systemic racism. Does that make them "extreme" or just clear headed.
I am against racism. But are Revolutionary War re-enactors in favor of a British King or Dictator ruling America? Of course not. It hurts real efforts against racism when you box at shadows.
There was no mention of atheist picketing reenactments, it was a survey question of how something is viewed.
You comment "They are the most passionate and extreme religious group in America about their worldview". As a Christian I can say that comment is ridiculous and wrong.