The view from our sanctuaries and other gatherings might appear a little different than this. My orhodox Saturday mornings have mostly Jews. Not the case with the Conservative and Reform synagogues. They have Christian spouses in attendance and often participating in support of their partner. Many attend educational classes. All attend Seder. It's a trifle of the American population, but a significant presence in those congregations.
We Jews have another unique element. We are commanded to perform specified observances. We are not commanded to believe. There are many who would identify as agnostic on the first question, move to the second where they select Jewish. Many of those people engage in Jewish activities, including synagogue attendance, don't bring pork into their homes, donate to Jewish causes, and other things that make them part of the community mosaic. They may think of themselves as non-believers and respond to a survey that way. Jews who encounter them regard them as fellow Jews.
The third category is more problematic for us. There is a rising phenomenon of cultural approbation. That is Christians, typically evangelicals, who absorb Jewish behaviors as part of their practice. Some do not impact on Judaism. King Charles was circumcised as an infant by a mohel at his mother's direction. And neonatal circumcisions are common in post-natal units in America without introducing a Jewish identity. But there are also Christian Passover Seders, Christian homes with a mezuzah on the front door, and other practices that are particular to Judaism. This would come up on a survey of this format, very different people from the spouses of Jews and Jews of non-belief.
Agree. There are probably a lot of Christians with family connections to Judaism that might select a vaguely worded cultural Judaism option. I am LDS, but my wife if part Jewish and her father hosts a Christianized Passover Seder (I understand some Jews would disapprove) and Passover has become our favorite holiday. Christian family connections of Jews probably makes up most of the “Culturally Jewish” Christians in the survey, would be my guess.
I wonder were Messianic Jews fit into all of this. I have had experiences with both Jews For Jesus and Chosen People Ministries, and the folks I worked with saw themselves as Jews who believed in Jesus -- in other words, kept Jewish religious observances, etc. Are they Christian Jews or Jewish Christians?
I live in Louisiana and I’m Jewish (convert and the child of converts). I had a visceral reaction to these results, but I thought about it and I can see devout Christians of a certain stripe saying these things.
I had a Christian girlfriend whose son (teenager at the time) told the nurses at his doctor’s office that he was Jewish when they asked him for religious affiliation (he’s ‘go on mission trips and tell people about Jesus every school break’ Baptist). He was also the first to tell me that Rabbi Jonathan Sacks died in 2020 (it was a Saturday, so most observant Jews didn’t know yet, but this Baptist kid was reading the Jerusalem Post).
I’ve had Pentecostal teenagers at schools I’ve worked at ask me about Ben Shapiro and they love him. They’re fascinated by things that they think of as Jewish (whereas I would primarily think of Shapiro for example as political).
It’s not just the cultural appropriation crowd with shofars in churches and Christian Passovers. I think there’s something kinda subversive with some Christians where they think of themselves that way-I don’t agree with it-but they usually don’t know any actual Jews (I’m many people’s first experience where I live), yet they see themselves as connected or they want to be connected in some way (these are usually low church evangelical Protestants) to notion they have in their minds of Jewishness.
I attend an LGBTQ+ church, part of the Metropolitan Community Church denomination. I'm one of three straight members in the congregation and, being, disabled, attend via a Zoom link. Our church does allow virtual members. Although located in Tennessee it has members from Florida, Texas, Missouri, and Kentucky. Visitors regularly pop in from California, Washington, Africa, and the U.K.
The religious backgrounds are widespread--evangelical, catholic, an mainline. I'm not sure we have any Jews, culturally or otherwise.
I would love to see some sort of data on our religious mix but I'm not sure it's even possible. Many religious LGBTQ people also attend The United Church of Christ, Episcopal Church, Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, and Presbyterian Church (USA) and maybe some attend Unitarian churches. At least I've heard Unitarians mentioned in various classes.
What percentage of LGBTQ+ people attend church? What churches have the largest percentage (I'm pretty sure it is Metropolitan Community Church), and do we have any Jewish LGBTQ people in churches?
You just think figuring out Jews is difficult, Ryan. I think trying to know more about gay people in church will require original research before statistical analysis can take place.
Not trying to speak definitively but only as a non-Jew who is deeply connected to Judaism and Jewishness, who studies and prays in synagogues under gratefully accepted leadership of rabbis of the multiple streams of Judaism, and who is frustrated with the approach the surveys and analysis use when it comes to Jews and Judaism:
Part of the problem is the degree to which the questions and categories are Christian rather than neutral. The ways they are posed suggest a lack of understanding that the questions are not designed to overcome.
Jews are a people, which is a category that is not racial or national or religious or measured or defined by practice or belief. One is primarily a Jew by birth, with the secondary option of conversion. Belief and practice are ancillary to *being* a Jew, even if important to many.
There are Jews whose practice is non-Jewish. And there are Christians who cosplay in order to misappropriate from Judaism. There are "interfaith" families who respect the distinct identities and those that blend them. And so on. But without neutral surveys, finding meaning is elusive.
There's a decent percentage of people in Mississippi (and probably elsewhere) who are named Friedman or Feinbaum and go to First Baptist because their ancestors converted. That could account for some of it.
I'm reminded of Penn Jillette's (Extremely WASP-y raised New Englander now Atheist Magician) story about wanting to be Jewish as a child because he thought that would be the only way he could become a comic (a la Lenny Bruce).
Is being Jewish different than Judaism? I know several Christians who have Jewish ancestry and identify as both. Some even keep many of the Jewish rules. Like being Irish or black it seems that 1/4 or 1/8th Jewish sometimes translates to "I am Jewish."
Depends on the survey and how the question is presented to the participants. This one askes a self-identity, with a reflex to a second question depending on the answer to the first. That largely accounts for the difference between the responses that become the statistical analysis that Ryan assembled and what practicing Jews encounter in our sacred and cultural institutions.
The view from our sanctuaries and other gatherings might appear a little different than this. My orhodox Saturday mornings have mostly Jews. Not the case with the Conservative and Reform synagogues. They have Christian spouses in attendance and often participating in support of their partner. Many attend educational classes. All attend Seder. It's a trifle of the American population, but a significant presence in those congregations.
We Jews have another unique element. We are commanded to perform specified observances. We are not commanded to believe. There are many who would identify as agnostic on the first question, move to the second where they select Jewish. Many of those people engage in Jewish activities, including synagogue attendance, don't bring pork into their homes, donate to Jewish causes, and other things that make them part of the community mosaic. They may think of themselves as non-believers and respond to a survey that way. Jews who encounter them regard them as fellow Jews.
The third category is more problematic for us. There is a rising phenomenon of cultural approbation. That is Christians, typically evangelicals, who absorb Jewish behaviors as part of their practice. Some do not impact on Judaism. King Charles was circumcised as an infant by a mohel at his mother's direction. And neonatal circumcisions are common in post-natal units in America without introducing a Jewish identity. But there are also Christian Passover Seders, Christian homes with a mezuzah on the front door, and other practices that are particular to Judaism. This would come up on a survey of this format, very different people from the spouses of Jews and Jews of non-belief.
Agree. There are probably a lot of Christians with family connections to Judaism that might select a vaguely worded cultural Judaism option. I am LDS, but my wife if part Jewish and her father hosts a Christianized Passover Seder (I understand some Jews would disapprove) and Passover has become our favorite holiday. Christian family connections of Jews probably makes up most of the “Culturally Jewish” Christians in the survey, would be my guess.
I also agree.
I wonder were Messianic Jews fit into all of this. I have had experiences with both Jews For Jesus and Chosen People Ministries, and the folks I worked with saw themselves as Jews who believed in Jesus -- in other words, kept Jewish religious observances, etc. Are they Christian Jews or Jewish Christians?
I live in Louisiana and I’m Jewish (convert and the child of converts). I had a visceral reaction to these results, but I thought about it and I can see devout Christians of a certain stripe saying these things.
I had a Christian girlfriend whose son (teenager at the time) told the nurses at his doctor’s office that he was Jewish when they asked him for religious affiliation (he’s ‘go on mission trips and tell people about Jesus every school break’ Baptist). He was also the first to tell me that Rabbi Jonathan Sacks died in 2020 (it was a Saturday, so most observant Jews didn’t know yet, but this Baptist kid was reading the Jerusalem Post).
I’ve had Pentecostal teenagers at schools I’ve worked at ask me about Ben Shapiro and they love him. They’re fascinated by things that they think of as Jewish (whereas I would primarily think of Shapiro for example as political).
It’s not just the cultural appropriation crowd with shofars in churches and Christian Passovers. I think there’s something kinda subversive with some Christians where they think of themselves that way-I don’t agree with it-but they usually don’t know any actual Jews (I’m many people’s first experience where I live), yet they see themselves as connected or they want to be connected in some way (these are usually low church evangelical Protestants) to notion they have in their minds of Jewishness.
I attend an LGBTQ+ church, part of the Metropolitan Community Church denomination. I'm one of three straight members in the congregation and, being, disabled, attend via a Zoom link. Our church does allow virtual members. Although located in Tennessee it has members from Florida, Texas, Missouri, and Kentucky. Visitors regularly pop in from California, Washington, Africa, and the U.K.
The religious backgrounds are widespread--evangelical, catholic, an mainline. I'm not sure we have any Jews, culturally or otherwise.
I would love to see some sort of data on our religious mix but I'm not sure it's even possible. Many religious LGBTQ people also attend The United Church of Christ, Episcopal Church, Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, and Presbyterian Church (USA) and maybe some attend Unitarian churches. At least I've heard Unitarians mentioned in various classes.
What percentage of LGBTQ+ people attend church? What churches have the largest percentage (I'm pretty sure it is Metropolitan Community Church), and do we have any Jewish LGBTQ people in churches?
You just think figuring out Jews is difficult, Ryan. I think trying to know more about gay people in church will require original research before statistical analysis can take place.
Not trying to speak definitively but only as a non-Jew who is deeply connected to Judaism and Jewishness, who studies and prays in synagogues under gratefully accepted leadership of rabbis of the multiple streams of Judaism, and who is frustrated with the approach the surveys and analysis use when it comes to Jews and Judaism:
Part of the problem is the degree to which the questions and categories are Christian rather than neutral. The ways they are posed suggest a lack of understanding that the questions are not designed to overcome.
Jews are a people, which is a category that is not racial or national or religious or measured or defined by practice or belief. One is primarily a Jew by birth, with the secondary option of conversion. Belief and practice are ancillary to *being* a Jew, even if important to many.
There are Jews whose practice is non-Jewish. And there are Christians who cosplay in order to misappropriate from Judaism. There are "interfaith" families who respect the distinct identities and those that blend them. And so on. But without neutral surveys, finding meaning is elusive.
There's a decent percentage of people in Mississippi (and probably elsewhere) who are named Friedman or Feinbaum and go to First Baptist because their ancestors converted. That could account for some of it.
I'm reminded of Penn Jillette's (Extremely WASP-y raised New Englander now Atheist Magician) story about wanting to be Jewish as a child because he thought that would be the only way he could become a comic (a la Lenny Bruce).
Is being Jewish different than Judaism? I know several Christians who have Jewish ancestry and identify as both. Some even keep many of the Jewish rules. Like being Irish or black it seems that 1/4 or 1/8th Jewish sometimes translates to "I am Jewish."
According to these stats, in America
36% of Jews follow Judaism.
35% identify as Christian.
7% identify as "other religion"
22% identify as non-religious.
Depends on the survey and how the question is presented to the participants. This one askes a self-identity, with a reflex to a second question depending on the answer to the first. That largely accounts for the difference between the responses that become the statistical analysis that Ryan assembled and what practicing Jews encounter in our sacred and cultural institutions.