Thanks Ryan, fascinating as ever. You've said a few times that the data seems to show that people are driven by self-identified political affiliation first rather than religion. More people identify as Christian because they identify as Republican than the other way around. I wonder if this means that in the next decade or two the negative reaction to the current Republican policies, especially from young people, will actually drive people away from religion. Not because of issues to do with loss of faith, but because they identify as Democrats first and being non-religious is part of that identity.
If the last 30 years are a guide, then the answer is yes - young people will flee religion because they don't like the political connotations of any type of Christianity.
You've got to remember, my college students have almost no concept of religion that is not conservative. The Religious Right is all they know. Talking to them about the abolitionist movement or the Social Gospel movement is fun.
It's amazing how far some folks on the left have tried to scrub religion out of the narrative of the Civil Rights movement. I always tell my students about this quote from Andrew Young:
And somebody jumped up. A lady said, ‘God is with this movement. We’re going on to the jail.’ And we started walking directly at the police and the dogs. And all of a sudden, the dogs weren’t barking, and we started singing, ‘I want Jesus to walk with me.’
And when you get through and you looked back, you saw all of these fire trucks blocking the street. And some good little sister hollered, ‘Great God Almighty done parted the Red Sea one more time!’”
I'm not on the front lines here, but it seems like this is more of a case of those Christians on the right not embracing the politically left Christians than of the politically left scrubbing religion out of the narrative. Some Christians on the right are outright hostile to MLK.
Valid point. The calls to replace MLK day with Charlie Kirk day on Twitter were something to behold.
My comments were written in light of the fact that Ta-Nehisi Coates was just as WashU and his perspective is clearly that religion is more about oppression than liberation.
Some people identify as Christian because they identify as Republican? Is this supported? If so, can someone share a link? Or is this a reference to the softer claim that support for a policy by Christian Republicans tends to align more with the political ideology than with the religion?
Right, it vaguely rings a bell from reading this Substack. A quick search didn’t bring up support for this claim as written, but it’s a very interesting idea if true.
This image is self-destructive in one specific way.
Democrats have been forcing mass immigration. The vast majority of immigrants come from parts of the world with strong cultures and religions, similar to black culture. When immigrants look at the current messages of the two parties, they gravitate toward the side that welcomes religion and culture. They don't realize that Republicans are faking it; they only hear the difference in message.
I mean, to be fair, the theology of a lot of Christian immigrants is much more on the Republican side of the ledger. Methodists in sub-Saharan African are not wearing rainbow stoles when they preach.
I think this says just as much about how welcoming White Christian churches are to Democrats as it does about how welcoming Democrats are to religious people. Kind of a circular cycle. I know that as a White Democrat, I don't think I'd feel welcome in most churches partially due to the "Eighty percent of the people who voted for Donald Trump identify as some type of Christian."
Yeah, this is the basic conceit of the new book. This polarization is just a self-reinforcing cycle now. Democrats don't feel welcome in church (particularly white churches). Meanwhile, some folks are actually being drawn to a Christian identity because of the political implications.
At one point the working title was: The Big Church Sort.
Could part of the change be accounted for by some white Christians who once identified as Democrats now identifying as Independents? Alternatively, perhaps some younger white liberal Christians have chosen to register as Independents?
I admit that my perception is anecdotal based on a small sample, but my liberal PC(USA) church has been growing steadily as newcomers, mostly in their 30s or early 40s look for alternatives to conservative churches.
Thanks Ryan, fascinating as ever. You've said a few times that the data seems to show that people are driven by self-identified political affiliation first rather than religion. More people identify as Christian because they identify as Republican than the other way around. I wonder if this means that in the next decade or two the negative reaction to the current Republican policies, especially from young people, will actually drive people away from religion. Not because of issues to do with loss of faith, but because they identify as Democrats first and being non-religious is part of that identity.
If the last 30 years are a guide, then the answer is yes - young people will flee religion because they don't like the political connotations of any type of Christianity.
You've got to remember, my college students have almost no concept of religion that is not conservative. The Religious Right is all they know. Talking to them about the abolitionist movement or the Social Gospel movement is fun.
"Martin Luther King, Jr. was a Doctor of What‽"
It's amazing how far some folks on the left have tried to scrub religion out of the narrative of the Civil Rights movement. I always tell my students about this quote from Andrew Young:
And somebody jumped up. A lady said, ‘God is with this movement. We’re going on to the jail.’ And we started walking directly at the police and the dogs. And all of a sudden, the dogs weren’t barking, and we started singing, ‘I want Jesus to walk with me.’
And when you get through and you looked back, you saw all of these fire trucks blocking the street. And some good little sister hollered, ‘Great God Almighty done parted the Red Sea one more time!’”
It's from this great documentary: https://www.pbs.org/godinamerica/transcripts/hour-five.html
I'm not on the front lines here, but it seems like this is more of a case of those Christians on the right not embracing the politically left Christians than of the politically left scrubbing religion out of the narrative. Some Christians on the right are outright hostile to MLK.
Valid point. The calls to replace MLK day with Charlie Kirk day on Twitter were something to behold.
My comments were written in light of the fact that Ta-Nehisi Coates was just as WashU and his perspective is clearly that religion is more about oppression than liberation.
Some people identify as Christian because they identify as Republican? Is this supported? If so, can someone share a link? Or is this a reference to the softer claim that support for a policy by Christian Republicans tends to align more with the political ideology than with the religion?
I know Ryan has specifically written an article on this topic before - sorry I don't have time to look it up.
Ryan?
https://www.graphsaboutreligion.com/p/im-an-evangelical-but-i-rarely-go
Right, it vaguely rings a bell from reading this Substack. A quick search didn’t bring up support for this claim as written, but it’s a very interesting idea if true.
This image is self-destructive in one specific way.
Democrats have been forcing mass immigration. The vast majority of immigrants come from parts of the world with strong cultures and religions, similar to black culture. When immigrants look at the current messages of the two parties, they gravitate toward the side that welcomes religion and culture. They don't realize that Republicans are faking it; they only hear the difference in message.
I mean, to be fair, the theology of a lot of Christian immigrants is much more on the Republican side of the ledger. Methodists in sub-Saharan African are not wearing rainbow stoles when they preach.
Maybe the cohort of ‘White Christian’ includes those who read the New Testament and then deny Jesus’s emphasis on loving their neighbor.
They may identify as Christian but they are not followers of Jesus.
I think this says just as much about how welcoming White Christian churches are to Democrats as it does about how welcoming Democrats are to religious people. Kind of a circular cycle. I know that as a White Democrat, I don't think I'd feel welcome in most churches partially due to the "Eighty percent of the people who voted for Donald Trump identify as some type of Christian."
Yeah, this is the basic conceit of the new book. This polarization is just a self-reinforcing cycle now. Democrats don't feel welcome in church (particularly white churches). Meanwhile, some folks are actually being drawn to a Christian identity because of the political implications.
At one point the working title was: The Big Church Sort.
Ryan,
Could part of the change be accounted for by some white Christians who once identified as Democrats now identifying as Independents? Alternatively, perhaps some younger white liberal Christians have chosen to register as Independents?
I admit that my perception is anecdotal based on a small sample, but my liberal PC(USA) church has been growing steadily as newcomers, mostly in their 30s or early 40s look for alternatives to conservative churches.
I think this what you are asking about:
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/09/15/more-white-americans-adopted-than-shed-evangelical-label-during-trump-presidency-especially-his-supporters/