I'm surprised that atheists register has highly as they do (26% weekly) about pondering such things, considering that the naturalistic/materialistic worldview teaches that there is no meaning to life. It's all an accident . Perhaps these findings with atheists suggests that there exists an inherent sense of purpose in all of us. But sometimes it has to be beat back.
When an atheist thinks that he/she has no meaning or purpose, he/she is thinking about meaning and purpose.
I was surprised the nones weren't higher because I feel like they are the ones who would be ignoring the questions of meaning because they make no decision about them - they don't deny meaning nor accept common answers that give meaning. Interesting...
Listening to a good sermon or singing hymns and some worship songs does help me contemplate the deeper things of life that I don’t think as much about during my workday.
I attended 1000 masses as music director of a Spanish Catholic church throughout the 1980s. I attended Unitarian church services from birth to age 11 (that's another 500 or so). I've occasionally attended religious services since then, but I would say, my experience of church is that it seems that whole structure is built to avoid the direct experience of God. The relationship with God seems, in my experience, to be so much more powerful in day to day interaction with others, in work, in play, etc. I don't think that's just me - there's a world wide exponential growth in SBNR which feels the same way.
Beautiful, thank you. I see, by the way, you're about two hours from me (we're in Asheville)
What about those who do not have any kind of personal connection to Christianity? I see Jesus as one of the great incarnations of Divinity, but not the only or even the greatest one.
Do you see it possible for those who have other views to be part of a non-denominational church in community?
There's a very interesting fellow here in Asheville, Chad Smith, who is now developing a "non dualistic" Christianity drawing from the works of Richard Rohr , Thomas Merton, Jim Finley and more recently, the "feminine" tradition of the early church (Mary Watterson will be doing a retreat here in June on Mary Magdalene). I attended a few of his services and loved what he was doing, but my wife and I have been at home in the tradition of MIrra Alfassa and Sri Aurobindo for about 50 years.
I had coffee with Chad last Thursday, and spoke with him about thousands of folks in Asheville who are SBNR (spiritual but not religious) who would love what he was doing but are looking for something wider than just the Christian tradition.
Yoga and meditation groups tend to be so secularized that the deeper Reality those traditions point to get lost. Dr. Lad at the Ayurvedic Institute is attempting to bring out those deeper aspects, but again, within the institutional format he brings to it, it does not speak to so many.
In any case, I'm glad to se what you are doing - it sounds just wonderful, the simple drawing closer to God "in whom we live and move and have our being"
Perhaps we'll take a trip out to Salisbury one day to experience what you're doing!
Jan and I are shifting to focus more on our effortless sleep online course in June - at which point we'll be posting twice a week to share very concrete, everyday ways everyone can make use of the sacred time before sleep to connect to the Divine, ultimately inspiring a life surrendered to God.
I believe Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life.
I don't see how someone who did not believe this would find a home in a church community.
Of course, there have always been those on the edge - those who aren't sure, who are curious but have all sorts of beliefs.
I think church is a *great* place for them, because that's where we practice - worship and prayer, service and devotion, living in community.
You don't have to profess a certain belief or be sure of it to start practicing! and to hear the stories of Jesus through Scripture and witness.
But I wouldn't change the center of what church is because not everyone believes. The center is *there* for people who believe - and who don't yet believe.
Surprising survey results. I was raised in the Catholic Faith and went to Catholic schools. I was fortunate that in grade school, when we were asked to write an essay on purpose and meaning, I had a pretty good idea that has stood the test of time. I am now in my early 70’s. “For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.” — Jeremiah 29:11 (NIV). “Many are the plans in a person’s heart, but it is the Lord’s purpose that prevails.” — Proverbs 19:21 (NIV)
Without a belief in God, I can understand the challenge of identifying purpose and meaning. Maybe a way of getting to the answer is to reflect on what gives joy in life, when you are the happiest?
God is love, and love is an action – to seek the best for another person in thoughts, words, and deeds. Encouragement to a child, a kind word for family or strangers, providing a product or service to a customer that exceeds expectations…
Teenage Ryan responded like the prophets of old: self-doubt and dread. Your "breakdown" reflected a wisdom beyond your years. I can see why church members saw such promise in you. As for this Ryan--I let the accolades and forecasts of greatness go to my head. I had to get knocked down a few pegs to reach the humility you already exhibited at a young age.
Fantastic analysis of who's using the religious language of purpose, and who's not.
Your post inspired my own -- about the power of purpose language in religion life. Those who don't participate in religion ignorantly narrow their understanding of causality to the scientific notion of Efficient Cause. In this form of cause, God inevitably is edged out by mechanical, chemical, biological causes.
But to think about God as Purpose, as a "Final Cause," removes this objection. As a God of Final Causes/Purpose, God draws/inspires toward his sacred purposes.
Purpose, thus, provides a pastoral and intellectually sustainable way to think about how God acts.
If the sample is large enough, I'd be interested in seeing if the service attendance figures for Jews and Muslims share the same pattern as Christians.
My hypothesis is that for Jews (and maybe for Muslims), attending services doesn't play the same role in self-conception and meaning as it does for Christians, and that the strong trend between frequently thinking about meaning and regular service attendance will be much less, or possibly absent.
This is some wonderful data and tracks very closely with some theory I had written about the crisis of meaning.
The way this data lands lines up with my idea that some people have strong internal sense of meaning while others need external meaning. Those who tend towards having stronger internal meaning, implying they have their own innate direction from within themselves, seem to have selected out of religion, generally. Then those who need forms of external meaning have either stayed in religion or returned to it. Again these are generalities, we all get meaning both internally and externally, but some seem to prefer or need one or the other.
It likely tracks so closely with religiosity because religion is kinda the ultimate system for human meaning. Additionally, since we no longer live in the thick societies where religion and culture were inseparable, there is this divergence when the numbers likely would've looked more homogenized in the past. Presented with plurality of meaning systems, some people are able to express their innate meaning and others struggle to find a valid external source.
I think this crisis of meaning has a lot of explanatory value for politics today, beyond even the religious angle. Here are my two big pieces on the subject:
It would be interesting to separate daily purpose from ultimate meaning.
Daily: What keeps you going, what keeps you plugging away when things get tough?
Ultimate: Why does life exist? Why does everything in a cell or body work together? Why are we conscious?
I'd bet the answers to daily purpose are more universal, less bound to religion.
I'm surprised that atheists register has highly as they do (26% weekly) about pondering such things, considering that the naturalistic/materialistic worldview teaches that there is no meaning to life. It's all an accident . Perhaps these findings with atheists suggests that there exists an inherent sense of purpose in all of us. But sometimes it has to be beat back.
When an atheist thinks that he/she has no meaning or purpose, he/she is thinking about meaning and purpose.
I was surprised the nones weren't higher because I feel like they are the ones who would be ignoring the questions of meaning because they make no decision about them - they don't deny meaning nor accept common answers that give meaning. Interesting...
Listening to a good sermon or singing hymns and some worship songs does help me contemplate the deeper things of life that I don’t think as much about during my workday.
this is so interesting.
also an answer to the question - 'Why go to church?'
Yes, we have a personal relationship with God. But it's when we engage in worship and prayer in community that we are drawn into more spiritual depth.
I attended 1000 masses as music director of a Spanish Catholic church throughout the 1980s. I attended Unitarian church services from birth to age 11 (that's another 500 or so). I've occasionally attended religious services since then, but I would say, my experience of church is that it seems that whole structure is built to avoid the direct experience of God. The relationship with God seems, in my experience, to be so much more powerful in day to day interaction with others, in work, in play, etc. I don't think that's just me - there's a world wide exponential growth in SBNR which feels the same way.
I think you are right.
Which is why it is my personal mission to help church reimagine itself away from ‘upholding the institution’ and towards ‘drawing closer to God’.
Still, despite the challenges, we are meant to believe in community - from the moment Jesus called a bunch of disciples.
It’s where we are held up - and formed - in the faith.
it’s where we learn to love God and our neighbor in practice.
Beautiful, thank you. I see, by the way, you're about two hours from me (we're in Asheville)
What about those who do not have any kind of personal connection to Christianity? I see Jesus as one of the great incarnations of Divinity, but not the only or even the greatest one.
Do you see it possible for those who have other views to be part of a non-denominational church in community?
There's a very interesting fellow here in Asheville, Chad Smith, who is now developing a "non dualistic" Christianity drawing from the works of Richard Rohr , Thomas Merton, Jim Finley and more recently, the "feminine" tradition of the early church (Mary Watterson will be doing a retreat here in June on Mary Magdalene). I attended a few of his services and loved what he was doing, but my wife and I have been at home in the tradition of MIrra Alfassa and Sri Aurobindo for about 50 years.
I had coffee with Chad last Thursday, and spoke with him about thousands of folks in Asheville who are SBNR (spiritual but not religious) who would love what he was doing but are looking for something wider than just the Christian tradition.
Yoga and meditation groups tend to be so secularized that the deeper Reality those traditions point to get lost. Dr. Lad at the Ayurvedic Institute is attempting to bring out those deeper aspects, but again, within the institutional format he brings to it, it does not speak to so many.
In any case, I'm glad to se what you are doing - it sounds just wonderful, the simple drawing closer to God "in whom we live and move and have our being"
Perhaps we'll take a trip out to Salisbury one day to experience what you're doing!
Chad is at "House of Mercy," by the way, if you ever want to check out what he is doing.
Our daughter and her wife live in Asheville! a beautiful place.
By the way - I subscribed to your newsletter, then unsubscribed cause I was scared you were a spammer!
I'm going to subscribe again - because you are sharing here in a way that assures me you are a real person.
but your site is so impersonal I did not get that impression...
Hmm, I'll have to see about that!
Jan and I are shifting to focus more on our effortless sleep online course in June - at which point we'll be posting twice a week to share very concrete, everyday ways everyone can make use of the sacred time before sleep to connect to the Divine, ultimately inspiring a life surrendered to God.
To answer your question - no.
I believe Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life.
I don't see how someone who did not believe this would find a home in a church community.
Of course, there have always been those on the edge - those who aren't sure, who are curious but have all sorts of beliefs.
I think church is a *great* place for them, because that's where we practice - worship and prayer, service and devotion, living in community.
You don't have to profess a certain belief or be sure of it to start practicing! and to hear the stories of Jesus through Scripture and witness.
But I wouldn't change the center of what church is because not everyone believes. The center is *there* for people who believe - and who don't yet believe.
It's the way of love.
Surprising survey results. I was raised in the Catholic Faith and went to Catholic schools. I was fortunate that in grade school, when we were asked to write an essay on purpose and meaning, I had a pretty good idea that has stood the test of time. I am now in my early 70’s. “For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.” — Jeremiah 29:11 (NIV). “Many are the plans in a person’s heart, but it is the Lord’s purpose that prevails.” — Proverbs 19:21 (NIV)
Without a belief in God, I can understand the challenge of identifying purpose and meaning. Maybe a way of getting to the answer is to reflect on what gives joy in life, when you are the happiest?
God is love, and love is an action – to seek the best for another person in thoughts, words, and deeds. Encouragement to a child, a kind word for family or strangers, providing a product or service to a customer that exceeds expectations…
Teenage Ryan responded like the prophets of old: self-doubt and dread. Your "breakdown" reflected a wisdom beyond your years. I can see why church members saw such promise in you. As for this Ryan--I let the accolades and forecasts of greatness go to my head. I had to get knocked down a few pegs to reach the humility you already exhibited at a young age.
Fantastic analysis of who's using the religious language of purpose, and who's not.
Your post inspired my own -- about the power of purpose language in religion life. Those who don't participate in religion ignorantly narrow their understanding of causality to the scientific notion of Efficient Cause. In this form of cause, God inevitably is edged out by mechanical, chemical, biological causes.
But to think about God as Purpose, as a "Final Cause," removes this objection. As a God of Final Causes/Purpose, God draws/inspires toward his sacred purposes.
Purpose, thus, provides a pastoral and intellectually sustainable way to think about how God acts.
(see my post: https://drjoannemswenson.substack.com/p/the-lens-of-mechanism-the-lens-of)
If the sample is large enough, I'd be interested in seeing if the service attendance figures for Jews and Muslims share the same pattern as Christians.
My hypothesis is that for Jews (and maybe for Muslims), attending services doesn't play the same role in self-conception and meaning as it does for Christians, and that the strong trend between frequently thinking about meaning and regular service attendance will be much less, or possibly absent.
This is some wonderful data and tracks very closely with some theory I had written about the crisis of meaning.
The way this data lands lines up with my idea that some people have strong internal sense of meaning while others need external meaning. Those who tend towards having stronger internal meaning, implying they have their own innate direction from within themselves, seem to have selected out of religion, generally. Then those who need forms of external meaning have either stayed in religion or returned to it. Again these are generalities, we all get meaning both internally and externally, but some seem to prefer or need one or the other.
It likely tracks so closely with religiosity because religion is kinda the ultimate system for human meaning. Additionally, since we no longer live in the thick societies where religion and culture were inseparable, there is this divergence when the numbers likely would've looked more homogenized in the past. Presented with plurality of meaning systems, some people are able to express their innate meaning and others struggle to find a valid external source.
I think this crisis of meaning has a lot of explanatory value for politics today, beyond even the religious angle. Here are my two big pieces on the subject:
Collapse of Meaning under Liberalism:
https://inlandnobody.substack.com/p/the-collapse-of-meaning-under-liberalism?r=cakfx
Existential Liberalism:
https://inlandnobody.substack.com/p/existential-liberalism?r=cakfx